Discussion:
Verses of the Rajam
(too old to reply)
Leon
2005-04-18 20:19:38 UTC
Permalink
Hello,

Firstly, I would like to point out that I am not a Muslim so apologies in
advance if my questions might seem ignorant!
I am curious regarding the origins of the punishment of stoning for adultery
in Islamic law. I have read a translation of the Quran and am in the process
of reading a second, and I have not found anything that proscribes this
punishment. From what I can gather, the only penalty in the Quran (for
adultery) is in Surah 24 Verse 2, and that is flogging.
I understand that the law is related to what is said in the Hadith, so I
went looking there.

I understand the Prophet ordered the punishment for a Jewish couple (as per
the penalty in the Torah for adultery) and for a man who confessed to
committing adultery, but then there are Hadith which say the following:

(http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/082.sbt.html#
008.082.804)

Narrated Ash Shaibani:

"I asked 'Abdullah bin Abi Aufa, 'Did Allah's Apostle carry out the Rajam
penalty ( i.e., stoning to death)?' He said, "Yes." I said, "Before the
revelation of Surat-ar-Nur or after it?" He replied, "I don't Know."

If this is the case, how has the penalty of stoning been deduced? Are there
Hadith that confirm he or others carried out the punishment after Surah 24
Verse 2 was revealed?

Another question is relating to this Hadith:

(http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/082.sbt.html#
008.082.816)

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:

"'Umar said, "I am afraid that after a long time has passed, people may say,
"We do not find the Verses of the Rajam (stoning to death) in the Holy
Book," and consequently they may go astray by leaving an obligation that
Allah has revealed. Lo! I confirm that the penalty of Rajam be inflicted on
him who commits illegal sexual intercourse, if he is already married and the
crime is proved by witnesses or pregnancy or confession." Sufyan added, "I
have memorized this narration in this way." 'Umar added, "Surely Allah's
Apostle carried out the penalty of Rajam, and so did we after him."

Is this Hadith (I've seen a couple of versions saying the same thing) a
sound Hadith? As from what I can gather from it, Umar is saying that a verse
was left out of the Quran?

If anyone can give me there opinion on these I would be grateful, or else if
someone could provide me with links for intelligent discussions on this
topic I would be also happy. The only real "discussion" I can see online (so
far anyway) about this is on anti Islam sites, which is not the sort of
"information" I'm looking for!

Thanks in advance!

Leon.
Yusuf B Gursey
2005-04-20 04:48:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Leon
Hello,
Firstly, I would like to point out that I am not a Muslim so
apologies in
Post by Leon
advance if my questions might seem ignorant!
I am curious regarding the origins of the punishment of stoning for adultery
in Islamic law. I have read a translation of the Quran and am in the process
yes, it is as you say not found in the canonical text of the Qur'an but
from various traditions that say that it ought to have been included in
it.
Post by Leon
If anyone can give me there opinion on these I would be grateful, or else if
someone could provide me with links for intelligent discussions on this
topic I would be also happy. The only real "discussion" I can see online (so
far anyway) about this is on anti Islam sites, which is not the sort of
"information" I'm looking for!
there has been good discussion in this forum under the threads
beginning with the posts that follow:

From: Chris Williamson <***@erols.com>
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: DOES STONING BOTHER MUSLIMS?
Date: 20 Aug 2002 00:11:08 GMT
Message-ID: <ajs1es$bid$***@samba.rahul.net>


From: ***@hotmail.com (Mike Harris)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Penalty for Zana in Islam
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 16:44:14 +0000 (UTC)
Message-ID: <***@posting.google.com>


From: John Eristu <***@hotmail.com>
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Rajam
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 23:06:53 CST
Message-ID: <c25u6p$1plmj6$***@ID-212478.news.uni-berlin.de>






an excerpt from one of my answers:



From: Yusuf B Gursey <***@shell01.TheWorld.com>
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Re: Penalty for Zana in Islam
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 17:51:04 +0000 (UTC)
Message-ID: <b2qtf3$o6i$***@pcls4.std.com>

short answer: not found in the qur'an.

long answer: more complicated.

a "verse of stoning" was claimed to be included in the qur'an by the
first
four caliphs, but that it had been lost (one explanation being eaten by
a
goat), there was doubt, so it was not included in the codex, but still
ought to have been. so it became to be regarded as a hadith of qur'anic

force.

the kharijis reject the "verse", as do many modern historians and some
religious people.
Post by Leon
Thanks in advance!
Leon.
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