Discussion:
Why Not Admit There Are Bad Muslims?
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David Amicus
2016-01-09 02:36:54 UTC
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I've been watching the news today about the Muslim who shot a police officer in Philadelphia. The mayor said the perpetrator was not a Muslim although he himself said that he was.

Bad people are found in all religions. There are people who do evil who call themselves Christians, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs etc.. It's true as well with some Muslims. Doesn't mean that they are right or the religion is to blame.

Just accept that there are bad people who fall far short of the moral teachings of the religion they claim to follow and move on!
Catherine Jefferson
2016-01-09 05:00:58 UTC
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Post by David Amicus
I've been watching the news today about the Muslim who shot a police
officer in Philadelphia. The mayor said the perpetrator was not a
Muslim although he himself said that he was.
Bad people are found in all religions. There are people who do evil
who call themselves Christians, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs etc.. It's true
as well with some Muslims. Doesn't mean that they are right or the
religion is to blame.
Just accept that there are bad people who fall far short of the moral
teachings of the religion they claim to follow and move on!
But that's too simple, too easy, too logical! It'll never work! <wry grin>

In case anybody missed the point -- I agree with David 100%. There are
bad people of all religions or none, all ethnic groups, and I suspect
all arbitrary groups of human beings larger than a dozen people.
Calling a person who commits murder or rape a bad guy is not a comment
on his or her ethnicity or religion, even if he or she claims to be
motivated by it.

However, it's an old human error (sin, IMHO) to blame a whole group for
the actions of individual members.
--
Catherine Jefferson <***@ergosphere.net>
Blog/Personal: http://www.ergosphere.net
Zev
2016-01-25 22:05:20 UTC
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Post by Catherine Jefferson
Calling a person who commits murder or rape a bad guy is not a comment
on his or her ethnicity or religion, even if he or she claims to be
motivated by it.
Comment or not, ignoring the frequent Islamic element in crimes committed by Muslims is silly.
David Amicus
2016-01-25 23:45:27 UTC
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Post by Zev
Post by Catherine Jefferson
Calling a person who commits murder or rape a bad guy is not a comment
on his or her ethnicity or religion, even if he or she claims to be
motivated by it.
Comment or not, ignoring the frequent Islamic element in crimes committed by Muslims is silly.
But there needs to be a caveat. I hate when some refer to Timothy McVeigh as a "Christian terrorist".
DKleinecke
2016-01-26 17:31:58 UTC
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Post by David Amicus
Post by Zev
Post by Catherine Jefferson
Calling a person who commits murder or rape a bad guy is not a comment
on his or her ethnicity or religion, even if he or she claims to be
motivated by it.
Comment or not, ignoring the frequent Islamic element in crimes committed by Muslims is silly.
But there needs to be a caveat. I hate when some refer to Timothy McVeigh as a "Christian terrorist".
Of course, not all crimes committed by Muslims have Islamic elements.
But the media get confused. For example, I would argue that "honor
killings" are contrary to explicit Islamic prohibitions against killing.
Nevertheless honor killers are almost always Muslim and the media ...
David Amicus
2016-01-26 17:56:57 UTC
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Post by DKleinecke
Post by David Amicus
Post by Zev
Post by Catherine Jefferson
Calling a person who commits murder or rape a bad guy is not a comment
on his or her ethnicity or religion, even if he or she claims to be
motivated by it.
Comment or not, ignoring the frequent Islamic element in crimes committed by Muslims is silly.
But there needs to be a caveat. I hate when some refer to Timothy McVeigh as a "Christian terrorist".
Of course, not all crimes committed by Muslims have Islamic elements.
But the media get confused. For example, I would argue that "honor
killings" are contrary to explicit Islamic prohibitions against killing.
Nevertheless honor killers are almost always Muslim and the media ...
Right! Many things are cultural and not religious like female circumcision. Years ago in my community there was a Sikh honor killing.
Yusuf B Gursey
2016-01-26 18:39:01 UTC
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Post by David Amicus
Post by DKleinecke
Post by David Amicus
Post by Zev
Post by Catherine Jefferson
Calling a person who commits murder or rape a bad guy is not a comment
on his or her ethnicity or religion, even if he or she claims to be
motivated by it.
Comment or not, ignoring the frequent Islamic element in crimes committed by Muslims is silly.
But there needs to be a caveat. I hate when some refer to Timothy McVeigh as a "Christian terrorist".
Of course, not all crimes committed by Muslims have Islamic elements.
But the media get confused. For example, I would argue that "honor
killings" are contrary to explicit Islamic prohibitions against killing.
Nevertheless honor killers are almost always Muslim and the media ...
Right! Many things are cultural and not religious like female
It is completely unkown in many Muslims lands. But it is widely
practiced by Christian and animist Africans, as well as Muslim
Africans.
Post by David Amicus
circumcision. Years ago in my community there was a Sikh honor killing.
Yusuf B Gursey
2016-01-26 18:36:24 UTC
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Post by DKleinecke
Post by David Amicus
Post by Zev
Post by Catherine Jefferson
Calling a person who commits murder or rape a bad guy is not a comment
on his or her ethnicity or religion, even if he or she claims to be
motivated by it.
Comment or not, ignoring the frequent Islamic element in crimes committed by Muslims is silly.
But there needs to be a caveat. I hate when some refer to Timothy McVeigh as a "Christian terrorist".
Of course, not all crimes committed by Muslims have Islamic elements.
But the media get confused. For example, I would argue that "honor
killings" are contrary to explicit Islamic prohibitions against killing.
It is against the Quranic verse that the each person is reesponsible
for his own sins and not those of others.

It is also usually against the Quranic burden of proof for adultery
(since it is high people circumvent it by taking it up
for themslves.
Post by DKleinecke
Nevertheless honor killers are almost always Muslim and the media ...
No "honor killings" among say Catholic Sicilians?
Catherine Jefferson
2016-01-26 21:01:00 UTC
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Post by DKleinecke
Of course, not all crimes committed by Muslims have Islamic elements.
But the media get confused. For example, I would argue that "honor
killings" are contrary to explicit Islamic prohibitions against killing.
Nevertheless honor killers are almost always Muslim and the media ...
Definitely. And media in the US and Europe tend to be ignorant, not
just about Islam, but about religions in general -- both what they teach
and how believers interpret and put those things into practice. Blaming
all Muslims for Isis is the same sort of sheer idiocy that blaming (say)
all Catholics for pedophile priests would be. The thing is, I know of
plenty of people in the media and other prominent public roles that
blame the Catholic Church and its members, not just for tolerating the
pedophiles, but for their crimes.

When there are just a few ignorant people shouting, you can ignore them.
Not when there's a large number of prominent people and they're all
screaming. When that happens, *everybody* needs to speak up or you'll
have a lynch mob on your hands. I'm afraid that's what's happening at
present in America and much of Europe towards Muslims. :(

I wish I were a better public speaker these days. <wry grin>
--
Catherine Jefferson <***@ergosphere.net>
Blog/Personal: http://www.ergosphere.net
Yusuf B Gursey
2016-01-09 18:23:29 UTC
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Post by David Amicus
I've been watching the news today about the Muslim who shot a police officer in Philadelphia. The mayor said the perpetrator was not a Muslim although he himself said that he was.
The mayor said it does reflect Muslim thinking, not that he
was not a Muslim.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-pennsylvania-police-idUSKBN0UM1L820160109


Philadelphia Mayor Jim Kenney, a Democrat sworn in on Monday, told reporters he did not believe Archer's actions reflected Islamic thinking.

"In no way shape or form does anyone in this room believe that what was done represents Islam," Kenney said. "This was done by a criminal with a stolen gun."
Post by David Amicus
Bad people are found in all religions. There are people who do evil who call themselves Christians, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs etc.. It's true as well with some Muslims. Doesn't mean that they are right or the religion is to blame.
Just accept that there are bad people who fall far short of the moral teachings of the religion they claim to follow and move on!
True.
David Amicus
2016-01-09 19:39:20 UTC
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Post by Yusuf B Gursey
Post by David Amicus
I've been watching the news today about the Muslim who shot a police officer in Philadelphia. The mayor said the perpetrator was not a Muslim although he himself said that he was.
The mayor said it does reflect Muslim thinking, not that he
was not a Muslim.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-pennsylvania-police-idUSKBN0UM1L820160109
Philadelphia Mayor Jim Kenney, a Democrat sworn in on Monday, told reporters he did not believe Archer's actions reflected Islamic thinking.
"In no way shape or form does anyone in this room believe that what was done represents Islam," Kenney said. "This was done by a criminal with a stolen gun."
Post by David Amicus
Bad people are found in all religions. There are people who do evil who call themselves Christians, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs etc.. It's true as well with some Muslims. Doesn't mean that they are right or the religion is to blame.
Just accept that there are bad people who fall far short of the moral teachings of the religion they claim to follow and move on!
True.
Thanks Yusuf for the clarification.
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