Discussion:
Islamic and Pre-Islamic Calendars
(too old to reply)
Yusuf B Gursey
2013-10-24 03:18:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
http://ygursey.blogspot.com/2013/10/on-apr-6-530-pm-yusuf-b-gursey.html
DKleinecke
2013-10-24 19:02:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Yusuf B Gursey
http://ygursey.blogspot.com/2013/10/on-apr-6-530-pm-yusuf-b-gursey.html
Congratulations on the fulfillment of your promise. It represents a lot of =
work on your part.

I missed al-Tabari who is sort of staple on this kind of matter. Page 59 of=
volume 13 of the SUNY translation under year 16 we read three hadiths abou=
t the matter. The first says only that the dating system was begun in year =
16 after a consultation with Ali. The second expand this by stating that Al=
i made the suggestion that dating system should start the day Muhammad left=
Mecca on his Hijrah to Madina. The third (from Ibn Abbas - the first two a=
re from Sa'id ibn al-Musayyab) generalizes this to the year of the hijrah.=
=20

I have no idea whether the notion that the Islamic calendar began on the da=
y (rather than the year) of the hijrah has any significance.
Yusuf B Gursey
2013-10-25 15:27:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
=20
Post by Yusuf B Gursey
http://ygursey.blogspot.com/2013/10/on-apr-6-530-pm-yusuf-b-gursey.html
=20
=20
=20
Congratulations on the fulfillment of your promise. It represents a lot o=
f =3D
=20
work on your part.
Thanks.
=20
=20
=20
=20
I missed al-Tabari who is sort of staple on this kind of matter. Page 59 =
of=3D
volume 13 of the SUNY translation under year 16 we read three hadiths ab=
ou=3D
t the matter. The first says only that the dating system was begun in yea=
r =3D
16 after a consultation with Ali. The second expand this by stating that =
Al=3D
i made the suggestion that dating system should start the day Muhammad le=
ft=3D
Mecca on his Hijrah to Madina. The third (from Ibn Abbas - the first two=
a=3D
re from Sa'id ibn al-Musayyab) generalizes this to the year of the hijrah=
.=3D
=3D20
=20
=20
=20
I have no idea whether the notion that the Islamic calendar began on the =
da=3D
y (rather than the year) of the hijrah has any significance.
That the dating system should start on the year of the hijrah is more consi=
stent with the Qur'anic injunction against nasi - postponement of the sacre=
d months. That the Islamic calendar succession of month extends at least to=
the Last Pilgrimage is seen from Tabari, Tafsir X, 54 stating that the Gre=
at Pilgrimage or the Farewell Pilgrimage coincided with the "pilgrimage" or=
hajj of the Jews and christians as well, presumeably Passover / Easter. =
DKleinecke
2013-10-25 17:41:38 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Friday, October 25, 2013 7:30:02 AM UTC-7, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
=20
That the dating system should start on the year of the hijrah is more con=
si=3D
stent with the Qur'anic injunction against nasi - postponement of the sac=
re=3D
d months. That the Islamic calendar succession of month extends at least =
to=3D
the Last Pilgrimage is seen from Tabari, Tafsir X, 54 stating that the G=
re=3D
at Pilgrimage or the Farewell Pilgrimage coincided with the "pilgrimage" =
or=3D
hajj of the Jews and christians as well, presumeably Passover / Easter. =
=3D

But the Last Pilgrimage happened before the chronology was introduced and i=
s therefore moot. Is it possible that al-Tabari picked up a proto-Shite not=
ion that Ali started a new chronology - perhaps even with different month n=
ames - where the era did begin with day of hijrah? The Ibn Abbas tradition,=
as usual, smooths over and rationalizes all the difficulties. It is intere=
sting that these hadiths are all he has to offer about beginning of the era=
. =20

I have often wondered, without any evidence whatsoever, whether the era mig=
ht have started with the Day of Badr instead of the hijrah. Not that it mat=
ters much.
y***@gmail.com
2013-11-01 19:02:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by DKleinecke
=20
That the dating system should start on the year of the hijrah is more con=
si=3D stent with the Qur'anic injunction against nasi - postponement of the
sac= re=3D d months. That the Islamic calendar succession of month extends
at least = to=3D the Last Pilgrimage is seen from Tabari, Tafsir X, 54
stating that the G= re=3D at Pilgrimage or the Farewell Pilgrimage coincided
with the "pilgrimage" = or=3D hajj of the Jews and christians as well,
presumeably Passover / Easter. =
=3D
But the Last Pilgrimage happened before the chronology was introduced and i=
s therefore moot. Is it possible that al-Tabari picked up a proto-Shite not=
My point was that the sequence of months was maintained, regardless of
the era.
Post by DKleinecke
ion that Ali started a new chronology - perhaps even with different month n=
ames - where the era did begin with day of hijrah? The Ibn Abbas tradition,=
as usual, smooths over and rationalizes all the difficulties. It is intere=
sting that these hadiths are all he has to offer about beginning of the era=
. =20
I have often wondered, without any evidence whatsoever, whether the era mig=
ht have started with the Day of Badr instead of the hijrah. Not that it mat=
ters much.
Loading...