Discussion:
Musings about Iram and Allah again
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Yusuf B Gursey
2016-02-21 13:37:41 UTC
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Musing about Iram and Allah again.

As I had said before Wadi Ramm in Jordan was identified
with 'iram (Iram of the Pillars) by the medieval geographer
Yaqut and inscriptions in Ancient North Arabian script,
and a tribe 3a:d <3d> as in the Qur'an. Now 'iram >
ramm could be simple reetymologizing of a biliteral root.
However, I noticed that it is pronounced rAmm with a distinct
back vowel, and popularly romanized as Wadi Rum, <Rum> to be
read as in the drink "rum". One possibility would be that
the local dialect regularly uses an emphatic r and has a
back vowel associated with it as is normal for Iraqi and
Gulf Arabic. Another possibilty is that it is another case
of secondary emphatic r resulting from contact with a
glottal stop. Thus 'iram > 'ram > RAm > RAmm (triliteralizing).
This happened in Moroccan Arabic: mRA "woman" from Classical
al-mar'a(t) contrasting mra "to shine" from mira:yah "mirror".
I had proposed the same mechanism fro the emphatic l in Allah
al-'ila:h > al'la:h > aLLA:h .
I have to know more about the local though to be sure. Comments welcome, espacially from those who know the speeech of the region.
David Amicus
2016-02-21 22:35:49 UTC
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Post by Yusuf B Gursey
Musing about Iram and Allah again.
As I had said before Wadi Ramm in Jordan was identified
with 'iram (Iram of the Pillars) by the medieval geographer
Yaqut and inscriptions in Ancient North Arabian script,
and a tribe 3a:d <3d> as in the Qur'an. Now 'iram >
ramm could be simple reetymologizing of a biliteral root.
However, I noticed that it is pronounced rAmm with a distinct
back vowel, and popularly romanized as Wadi Rum, <Rum> to be
read as in the drink "rum". One possibility would be that
the local dialect regularly uses an emphatic r and has a
back vowel associated with it as is normal for Iraqi and
Gulf Arabic. Another possibilty is that it is another case
of secondary emphatic r resulting from contact with a
glottal stop. Thus 'iram > 'ram > RAm > RAmm (triliteralizing).
This happened in Moroccan Arabic: mRA "woman" from Classical
al-mar'a(t) contrasting mra "to shine" from mira:yah "mirror".
I had proposed the same mechanism fro the emphatic l in Allah
al-'ila:h > al'la:h > aLLA:h .
I have to know more about the local though to be sure. Comments welcome, espacially from those who know the speeech of the region.
I had not heard about the Radi Ramm before. Here is more info on it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wadi_Rum
v***@gmail.com
2016-03-03 06:41:12 UTC
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Regarding the emphatic /r/, we velarize the /r/ before the vowels /a/ and /=
u/ as a rule, with no exceptions. We leave the consonant unvelarized before=
/i/. I would add that the velarization before /a/ is full, with the same e=
ffect on the vowel as if /S/ or /D/ preceded it. It is milder before /u/, s=
o the effect on the vowel is not as strong as if a nominally emphatic conso=
nant preceded it. Therefore, the velarization of /r/ before /a/ offers no c=
lue about a possible contraction before it.
Yusuf B Gursey
2016-03-03 11:00:52 UTC
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On Thursday, March 3, 2016 at 8:50:03 AM UTC+2, ***@gmail.com wrote:

Who is "we"?
Post by v***@gmail.com
Regarding the emphatic /r/, we velarize the /r/ before the vowels /a/ and /=
u/ as a rule, with no exceptions. We leave the consonant unvelarized before=
/i/. I would add that the velarization before /a/ is full, with the same e=
ffect on the vowel as if /S/ or /D/ preceded it. It is milder before /u/, s=
o the effect on the vowel is not as strong as if a nominally emphatic conso=
nant preceded it. Therefore, the velarization of /r/ before /a/ offers no c=
lue about a possible contraction before it.
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