Discussion:
Arabic Allah, Syriac Allaha resolved
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Yusuf B Gursey
2015-01-18 02:27:26 UTC
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Excellent article:

https://www.academia.edu/2076696/The_relationship_between_Arabic_All%C4%81h=
_and_Syriac_All%C4%81h%C4%81

http://tinyurl.com/mhmm4sj

Basically it confirms the internal Arabic etymology of alla:h from al-'ila:=
h and opens up the possiblity that Syriac alla:ha: may have been influenced=
by Arabic.

The article does not tackle the question of the velar or emphatic l in alla=
:h.

Earlier I had said that my theory is that the emphatic l came from the glot=
tal stop of 'ila:h. In my view the vowel of 'ila:h was elided first: al-'il=
a:h > al'la:h , and the resultant glottalized l was simplified into a velar=
or emphatic l , > aLLa:h .

Prof. Francois de Blois kindly came up with the analogous example from Egyp=
tian Arabic (Cairo)=20

<< Classical thala:atha 3ashara > Cairene talaTa:=C5=A1, with irregular san=
dhi t (from Classical th) > T (emphatic) >> "13"

The `Ayn merged with ta:' yielding emphatic T.=20
DKleinecke
2015-01-18 18:22:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Yusuf B Gursey
https://www.academia.edu/2076696/The_relationship_between_Arabic_All%C4%81h=
_and_Syriac_All%C4%81h%C4%81
http://tinyurl.com/mhmm4sj
Basically it confirms the internal Arabic etymology of alla:h from al-'ila:=
h and opens up the possiblity that Syriac alla:ha: may have been influenced=
by Arabic.
The article does not tackle the question of the velar or emphatic l in alla=
:h.
Earlier I had said that my theory is that the emphatic l came from the glot=
tal stop of 'ila:h. In my view the vowel of 'ila:h was elided first: al-'il=
a:h > al'la:h , and the resultant glottalized l was simplified into a velar=
or emphatic l , > aLLa:h .
Prof. Francois de Blois kindly came up with the analogous example from Egyp=
tian Arabic (Cairo)=20
<< Classical thala:atha 3ashara > Cairene talaTa:=C5=A1, with irregular san=
dhi t (from Classical th) > T (emphatic) >> "13"
The `Ayn merged with ta:' yielding emphatic T.=20
Agreed. What it establishes is that Arabic Allah is NOT a loan from
Syriac. In passing it also shows that Allah was well known in Arabia
as the (or a) high god long before Muhammad's day. The gist of his
reformation was that the other gods were non-existent. The Qur'an
makes it clear that Allah is the god whom the Jews worshipped - and
by inference the Christians. Who the Sabians were remains mysterious -
I personally believe it was the Manichees - but the early Muslims
(while there still were Manichees) did not accept this identification.
Yusuf B Gursey
2015-01-18 18:55:38 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by DKleinecke
=20
https://www.academia.edu/2076696/The_relationship_between_Arabic_All%C4=
%81h=3D
Post by DKleinecke
_and_Syriac_All%C4%81h%C4%81
=20
http://tinyurl.com/mhmm4sj
=20
Basically it confirms the internal Arabic etymology of alla:h from al-'=
ila:=3D
Post by DKleinecke
h and opens up the possiblity that Syriac alla:ha: may have been influe=
nced=3D
Post by DKleinecke
by Arabic.
=20
The article does not tackle the question of the velar or emphatic l in =
alla=3D
Post by DKleinecke
:h.
=20
Earlier I had said that my theory is that the emphatic l came from the =
glot=3D
Post by DKleinecke
tal stop of 'ila:h. In my view the vowel of 'ila:h was elided first: al=
-'il=3D
Post by DKleinecke
a:h > al'la:h , and the resultant glottalized l was simplified into a v=
elar=3D
Post by DKleinecke
or emphatic l , > aLLa:h .
=20
Prof. Francois de Blois kindly came up with the analogous example from =
Egyp=3D
Post by DKleinecke
tian Arabic (Cairo)=3D20
=20
<< Classical thala:atha 3ashara > Cairene talaTa:=3DC5=3DA1, with irreg=
ular san=3D
Post by DKleinecke
dhi t (from Classical th) > T (emphatic) >> "13"
=20
The `Ayn merged with ta:' yielding emphatic T.=3D20
=20
Agreed. What it establishes is that Arabic Allah is NOT a loan from
Syriac. In passing it also shows that Allah was well known in Arabia
as the (or a) high god long before Muhammad's day. The gist of his
reformation was that the other gods were non-existent. The Qur'an=20
makes it clear that Allah is the god whom the Jews worshipped - and
by inference the Christians. Who the Sabians were remains mysterious -
I personally believe it was the Manichees - but the early Muslims=20
(while there still were Manichees) did not accept this identification.
Francois de Blois makes that idenification. Perhaps it included various Gno=
stic tendencies in general. The Uighur Turks in Eastern Central Asia made M=
anicaeism the state religion for a while and Manichaeans were involved in t=
he revolt that set up the Ming dynasty in China/=20
DKleinecke
2015-01-19 17:00:09 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Yusuf B Gursey
Post by DKleinecke
=20
https://www.academia.edu/2076696/The_relationship_between_Arabic_All%C4=
%81h=3D
Post by DKleinecke
_and_Syriac_All%C4%81h%C4%81
=20
http://tinyurl.com/mhmm4sj
=20
Basically it confirms the internal Arabic etymology of alla:h from al-'=
ila:=3D
Post by DKleinecke
h and opens up the possiblity that Syriac alla:ha: may have been influe=
nced=3D
Post by DKleinecke
by Arabic.
=20
The article does not tackle the question of the velar or emphatic l in =
alla=3D
Post by DKleinecke
:h.
=20
Earlier I had said that my theory is that the emphatic l came from the =
glot=3D
Post by DKleinecke
tal stop of 'ila:h. In my view the vowel of 'ila:h was elided first: al=
-'il=3D
Post by DKleinecke
a:h > al'la:h , and the resultant glottalized l was simplified into a v=
elar=3D
Post by DKleinecke
or emphatic l , > aLLa:h .
=20
Prof. Francois de Blois kindly came up with the analogous example from =
Egyp=3D
Post by DKleinecke
tian Arabic (Cairo)=3D20
=20
<< Classical thala:atha 3ashara > Cairene talaTa:=3DC5=3DA1, with irreg=
ular san=3D
Post by DKleinecke
dhi t (from Classical th) > T (emphatic) >> "13"
=20
The `Ayn merged with ta:' yielding emphatic T.=3D20
=20
Agreed. What it establishes is that Arabic Allah is NOT a loan from
Syriac. In passing it also shows that Allah was well known in Arabia
as the (or a) high god long before Muhammad's day. The gist of his
reformation was that the other gods were non-existent. The Qur'an=20
makes it clear that Allah is the god whom the Jews worshipped - and
by inference the Christians. Who the Sabians were remains mysterious -
I personally believe it was the Manichees - but the early Muslims=20
(while there still were Manichees) did not accept this identification.
Francois de Blois makes that idenification. Perhaps it included various Gno=
stic tendencies in general. The Uighur Turks in Eastern Central Asia made M=
anicaeism the state religion for a while and Manichaeans were involved in t=
he revolt that set up the Ming dynasty in China/=20
FdeB is good person to have agree with me. But the Muslims back in the early
centuries did not make the identification and persecuted the Manichees -
perhaps wiped them out. This poses a question about the continuity between
Qur'an and the early Muslim empire. That is, if the Sabians were really the
Manichees how was it that that was forgotten?
Yusuf B Gursey
2015-07-15 17:32:09 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by DKleinecke
=20
https://www.academia.edu/2076696/The_relationship_between_Arabic_All%C4=
%81h=3D
Post by DKleinecke
_and_Syriac_All%C4%81h%C4%81
=20
http://tinyurl.com/mhmm4sj
=20
Basically it confirms the internal Arabic etymology of alla:h from al-'=
ila:=3D
Post by DKleinecke
h and opens up the possiblity that Syriac alla:ha: may have been influe=
nced=3D
Post by DKleinecke
by Arabic.
=20
The article does not tackle the question of the velar or emphatic l in =
alla=3D
Post by DKleinecke
:h.
=20
Earlier I had said that my theory is that the emphatic l came from the =
glot=3D
Post by DKleinecke
tal stop of 'ila:h. In my view the vowel of 'ila:h was elided first: al=
-'il=3D
Post by DKleinecke
a:h > al'la:h , and the resultant glottalized l was simplified into a v=
elar=3D
Post by DKleinecke
or emphatic l , > aLLa:h .
=20
Prof. Francois de Blois kindly came up with the analogous example from =
Egyp=3D
Post by DKleinecke
tian Arabic (Cairo)=3D20
=20
<< Classical thala:atha 3ashara > Cairene talaTa:=3DC5=3DA1, with irreg=
ular san=3D
Post by DKleinecke
dhi t (from Classical th) > T (emphatic) >> "13"
=20
The `Ayn merged with ta:' yielding emphatic T.=3D20
=20
Agreed. What it establishes is that Arabic Allah is NOT a loan from
Syriac. In passing it also shows that Allah was well known in Arabia
as the (or a) high god long before Muhammad's day. The gist of his
reformation was that the other gods were non-existent. The Qur'an=20
makes it clear that Allah is the god whom the Jews worshipped - and
by inference the Christians. Who the Sabians were remains mysterious -
I personally believe it was the Manichees - but the early Muslims=20
(while there still were Manichees) did not accept this identification.
BTW An article in a journal based in Turkey:

Sabi Matter
=E2=80=93The Issue of Whether the Concept Sabi in the Qur=CA=BEan Signifies
Sabi'i/Sabi'a
Cagfer Karadas
Uludag University, Bursa-Turkey
Ilahiyat Studies Vol. 1 Number 1 Winter/Spring 2010 p-ISSN: 1309-1786 e-IS=
SN: 1309-1719
Copyright Bursa Ilahiyat Foundation

ilahiyat (Arabic 'ila:hiyya:t) is a neologism meaning "theology".

it is proposed that the Sabi'un of the Qur'an are just "people who changed =
their religion" and not a religious community and they were identified as o=
ne only afterwards.

email me if you want a copy.

Yusuf B Gursey
2015-01-19 03:59:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Yusuf B Gursey
https://www.academia.edu/2076696/The_relationship_between_Arabic_All%C4%81h=
_and_Syriac_All%C4%81h%C4%81
http://tinyurl.com/mhmm4sj
Basically it confirms the internal Arabic etymology of alla:h from al-'ila:=
h and opens up the possiblity that Syriac alla:ha: may have been influenced=
by Arabic.
The article does not tackle the question of the velar or emphatic l in alla=
:h.
in footnote references the opinion of Ambros "Zur Entstehung der Emphase in Allah" WZKM 73 23-32 (1981) that the emphatic L comes from the vowel quality in Syriac. I like my explanation better.
Post by Yusuf B Gursey
Earlier I had said that my theory is that the emphatic l came from the glot=
tal stop of 'ila:h. In my view the vowel of 'ila:h was elided first: al-'il=
a:h > al'la:h , and the resultant glottalized l was simplified into a velar=
or emphatic l , > aLLa:h .
Prof. Francois de Blois kindly came up with the analogous example from Egyp=
tian Arabic (Cairo)=20
<< Classical thala:atha 3ashara > Cairene talaTa:=C5=A1, with irregular san=
dhi t (from Classical th) > T (emphatic) >> "13"
The `Ayn merged with ta:' yielding emphatic T.=20
Yusuf B Gursey
2015-07-15 09:13:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Yusuf B Gursey
https://www.academia.edu/2076696/The_relationship_between_Arabic_All%C4%81h=
_and_Syriac_All%C4%81h%C4%81
http://tinyurl.com/mhmm4sj
Basically it confirms the internal Arabic etymology of alla:h from al-'ila:=
h and opens up the possiblity that Syriac alla:ha: may have been influenced=
by Arabic.
The article does not tackle the question of the velar or emphatic l in alla=
:h.
Earlier I had said that my theory is that the emphatic l came from the glot=
tal stop of 'ila:h. In my view the vowel of 'ila:h was elided first: al-'il=
a:h > al'la:h , and the resultant glottalized l was simplified into a velar=
or emphatic l , > aLLa:h .
OK. I found the reference for the example that originally inspired me:

"A Dictionary of Moroccan Arabic: English - Arabic" ed.: Richard S. Harrell, compiled by Thomas Fox Mohammed Abu-Talib w1th the ass1stance of Ahmed Ben Thami, Allal Chreibi, Habiba Kanouni Georgetown University Press, Washington, D.C. 20007

p. 85 mra imri vi to shine (this may be a back formation from mraya mirror, looking - in the same page from Standard Arabic miraya:(t) "mirror")

vs.

mRa woman, wife from Classical al-mar'a(t), imra'a(t).

Here the emphatic r comes from the merging of non-emphatic r with a glottal stop. I consider this an exact parallel to the development of the emphatic L in alla:h
Post by Yusuf B Gursey
Prof. Francois de Blois kindly came up with the analogous example from Egyp=
tian Arabic (Cairo)=20
<< Classical thala:atha 3ashara > Cairene talaTa:=C5=A1, with irregular san=
dhi t (from Classical th) > T (emphatic) >> "13"
The `Ayn merged with ta:' yielding emphatic T.=20
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