Discussion:
Did Muhammad Go Hunting?
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David Amicus
2015-10-14 04:56:19 UTC
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A Sikh friend was telling me that their last Guru Gobind Singh was a great =
hunter. Which got me wondering at anytime during his life if Muhammad ever=
hunted animals? I'm guessing the only instruments were spears and bows & a=
rrows and hunting animals were dogs or falcons? Muhammad's uncle Hamza was=
a great hunter.
Yusuf B Gursey
2015-10-14 09:41:50 UTC
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Post by David Amicus
A Sikh friend was telling me that their last Guru Gobind Singh was a great =
hunter. Which got me wondering at anytime during his life if Muhammad ever=
Hunting is permitted, but Muhammad is said to have forbiden recreational hunting, but Muslim rulers and noblemen seem to have invented a whole list of exceptions.

Hunting (usually Ibex) as part of religious ritual was practcied in Pre-Islamic Yemen.

I have no knowledege of Muhammad practicing hunting, it certainly wasn't something he normally did.
Post by David Amicus
hunted animals? I'm guessing the only instruments were spears and bows & a=
rrows and hunting animals were dogs or falcons? Muhammad's uncle Hamza was=
Cheetahs were also trianed for this purpose, I don't know at what date. In addition to falcons, a variety of hawks or eagles.
Post by David Amicus
a great hunter.
DKleinecke
2015-10-14 18:53:20 UTC
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Post by Yusuf B Gursey
Post by David Amicus
A Sikh friend was telling me that their last Guru Gobind Singh was a great =
hunter. Which got me wondering at anytime during his life if Muhammad ever=
Hunting is permitted, but Muhammad is said to have forbiden recreational hunting, but Muslim rulers and noblemen seem to have invented a whole list of exceptions.
Hunting (usually Ibex) as part of religious ritual was practcied in Pre-Islamic Yemen.
I have no knowledege of Muhammad practicing hunting, it certainly wasn't something he normally did.
Post by David Amicus
hunted animals? I'm guessing the only instruments were spears and bows & a=
rrows and hunting animals were dogs or falcons? Muhammad's uncle Hamza was=
Cheetahs were also trianed for this purpose, I don't know at what date. In addition to falcons, a variety of hawks or eagles.
Post by David Amicus
a great hunter.
Hunting seems to have been of no interest to the people who gave us
the earliest records of Islam. It is mentioned in passing and there are
some dietary regulations but little more.

There is the story of a raiding party Muhammad sent out that wandered
around a month or more and nearly starved to death. Note that they
seem to not even have the idea of hunting for food much less actually
doing so. Eventually they found a beached whale (?) and were saved.
Yusuf B Gursey
2015-10-15 00:29:55 UTC
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Post by DKleinecke
Post by David Amicus
A Sikh friend was telling me that their last Guru Gobind Singh was a great =
hunter. Which got me wondering at anytime during his life if Muhammad > > ever=
Hunting is permitted, but Muhammad is said to have forbiden recreational > > hunting, but Muslim rulers and noblemen seem to have invented a whole
list of exceptions.
Hunting (usually Ibex) as part of religious ritual was practcied in Pre-> > Islamic Yemen.
I have no knowledege of Muhammad practicing hunting, it certainly wasn't > > something he normally did.
Post by David Amicus
hunted animals? I'm guessing the only instruments were spears and bows & a=
rrows and hunting animals were dogs or falcons? Muhammad's uncle Hamza was=
Cheetahs were also trianed for this purpose, I don't know at what date.
Also apparently caracals (a wildcat superficially resembling a lynx with a long tail)
Post by DKleinecke
In addition to falcons, a variety of hawks or eagles.
Post by David Amicus
a great hunter.
Hunting seems to have been of no interest to the people who gave us
the earliest records of Islam. It is mentioned in passing and there are
Muhammad, Ali, `Uthman were from the two important town based merchant merchant families. Abu Bakr, as his nickname indicates, owned a herd of camels. Little time or motivation to hunt.
Post by DKleinecke
some dietary regulations but little more.
There is the story of a raiding party Muhammad sent out that wandered
around a month or more and nearly starved to death. Note that they
seem to not even have the idea of hunting for food much less actually
doing so. Eventually they found a beached whale (?) and were saved.
David Amicus
2015-10-15 02:09:26 UTC
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Post by Yusuf B Gursey
Post by DKleinecke
Post by David Amicus
A Sikh friend was telling me that their last Guru Gobind Singh was a great =
hunter. Which got me wondering at anytime during his life if Muhammad > > ever=
Hunting is permitted, but Muhammad is said to have forbiden recreational > > hunting, but Muslim rulers and noblemen seem to have invented a whole
list of exceptions.
Hunting (usually Ibex) as part of religious ritual was practcied in Pre-> > Islamic Yemen.
I have no knowledege of Muhammad practicing hunting, it certainly wasn't > > something he normally did.
Post by David Amicus
hunted animals? I'm guessing the only instruments were spears and bows & a=
rrows and hunting animals were dogs or falcons? Muhammad's uncle Hamza was=
Cheetahs were also trianed for this purpose, I don't know at what date.
Also apparently caracals (a wildcat superficially resembling a lynx with a long tail)
Post by DKleinecke
In addition to falcons, a variety of hawks or eagles.
Post by David Amicus
a great hunter.
Hunting seems to have been of no interest to the people who gave us
the earliest records of Islam. It is mentioned in passing and there are
Muhammad, Ali, `Uthman were from the two important town based merchant merchant families. Abu Bakr, as his nickname indicates, owned a herd of camels. Little time or motivation to hunt.
Post by DKleinecke
some dietary regulations but little more.
There is the story of a raiding party Muhammad sent out that wandered
around a month or more and nearly starved to death. Note that they
seem to not even have the idea of hunting for food much less actually
doing so. Eventually they found a beached whale (?) and were saved.
I knew that Abu Bakr was a nickname. Could you expand on its meaning?
Yusuf B Gursey
2015-10-15 06:15:06 UTC
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Post by David Amicus
Post by Yusuf B Gursey
Post by DKleinecke
Post by David Amicus
A Sikh friend was telling me that their last Guru Gobind Singh was a
great =
hunter. Which got me wondering at anytime during his life if Muhammad > > ever=
Hunting is permitted, but Muhammad is said to have forbiden recreational > > hunting, but Muslim rulers and noblemen seem to have invented a whole
list of exceptions.
Hunting (usually Ibex) as part of religious ritual was practcied in Pre-> > Islamic Yemen.
I have no knowledege of Muhammad practicing hunting, it certainly wasn't > > something he normally did.
Post by David Amicus
hunted animals? I'm guessing the only instruments were spears and
bows & a=
rrows and hunting animals were dogs or falcons? Muhammad's uncle
Hamza was=
Cheetahs were also trianed for this purpose, I don't know at what date.
Also apparently caracals (a wildcat superficially resembling a lynx with a long tail)
Post by DKleinecke
In addition to falcons, a variety of hawks or eagles.
Post by David Amicus
a great hunter.
Hunting seems to have been of no interest to the people who gave us
the earliest records of Islam. It is mentioned in passing and there are
Muhammad, Ali, `Uthman were from the two important town based merchant
merchant families. Abu Bakr, as his nickname indicates, owned a herd of
camels. Little time or motivation to hunt.
Post by DKleinecke
some dietary regulations but little more.
There is the story of a raiding party Muhammad sent out that wandered
around a month or more and nearly starved to death. Note that they
seem to not even have the idea of hunting for food much less actually
doing so. Eventually they found a beached whale (?) and were saved.
I knew that Abu Bakr was a nickname. Could you expand on its meaning?
bakr = A young male camel. 'abu: = father of litt. father of a young he camel ; but in such names it means "having a lot of" In other words he had a lot camels.
David Amicus
2015-10-15 07:01:01 UTC
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Post by Yusuf B Gursey
Post by David Amicus
Post by Yusuf B Gursey
Post by DKleinecke
Post by David Amicus
A Sikh friend was telling me that their last Guru Gobind Singh was a
great =
hunter. Which got me wondering at anytime during his life if Muhammad > > ever=
Hunting is permitted, but Muhammad is said to have forbiden recreational > > hunting, but Muslim rulers and noblemen seem to have invented a whole
list of exceptions.
Hunting (usually Ibex) as part of religious ritual was practcied in Pre-> > Islamic Yemen.
I have no knowledege of Muhammad practicing hunting, it certainly wasn't > > something he normally did.
Post by David Amicus
hunted animals? I'm guessing the only instruments were spears and
bows & a=
rrows and hunting animals were dogs or falcons? Muhammad's uncle
Hamza was=
Cheetahs were also trianed for this purpose, I don't know at what date.
Also apparently caracals (a wildcat superficially resembling a lynx with a long tail)
Post by DKleinecke
In addition to falcons, a variety of hawks or eagles.
Post by David Amicus
a great hunter.
Hunting seems to have been of no interest to the people who gave us
the earliest records of Islam. It is mentioned in passing and there are
Muhammad, Ali, `Uthman were from the two important town based merchant
merchant families. Abu Bakr, as his nickname indicates, owned a herd of
camels. Little time or motivation to hunt.
Post by DKleinecke
some dietary regulations but little more.
There is the story of a raiding party Muhammad sent out that wandered
around a month or more and nearly starved to death. Note that they
seem to not even have the idea of hunting for food much less actually
doing so. Eventually they found a beached whale (?) and were saved.
I knew that Abu Bakr was a nickname. Could you expand on its meaning?
bakr = A young male camel. 'abu: = father of litt. father of a young he camel ; but in such names it means "having a lot of" In other words he had a lot camels.
Thank-you! Sometimes there was the custom when a man became the father of a son that he would be called Abu (father) plus the name of the son. Like Muhammad is sometimes called Abu'l Qasim.

Thus I had thought that the Bakr in Abu Bakr had a connection to his son. Thank-you for the fascinating information.

I remember when Muhammad and Abu Bakr were going to flee to Medina that Abu Bakr wanted to give Muhammad a camel to use but Muhammad insisted upon paying for it.
Catherine Jefferson
2015-10-15 18:46:29 UTC
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Post by DKleinecke
Hunting seems to have been of no interest to the people who gave us
the earliest records of Islam. It is mentioned in passing and there are
some dietary regulations but little more.
That doesn't surprise me. Among many people in the developed world i
the 21st century, hunting has a disreputable air even where it is legal
and people do it. Like anything forbidden or that people think might be
forbidden soon, that also increases its appeal to some people. I've
found as a adult that a lot of people are fascinated with the subject of
hunting but know very little about it.

None of that would have applied in the sixth and seventh centuries, when
Islam's prophet was alive. Hunting would have simply been one way (a
relatively archaic and labor-intensive way) of obtaining food. Some
people of high wealth and social status did it because they enjoyed it
and didn't have to worry about how efficient a food source it was.
People whose culture still relied on hunting wild game as a significant
food source did it. People whose culture relied on other food sources
(such as herding or agriculture) generally did not hunt because they
lacked the time, tools, and training to make it worth the effort.

Why do I think this? I grew up around hunters and hunting. It was a
common activity where I lived as a child. My father hunted; I rarely ate
store-bought meat at home til we moved to an area with less game nearby.

A hobby hunter might just enjoy weekends hiking and shooting without
much need for the meat. Somebody who relies on hunting as a real food
source must practice A LOT and become skilled or he and his family will
go hungry. And this is with rifles and shotguns. Hunting with bows is
a lot harder; you must be *very* skilled.

Islam's prophet was part of the Qurayshi tribe, a prosperous and
powerful Arabian peninsula merchant tribe living in a society that had
long had both agriculture and herding/pastoralism. They had MUCH better
and more plentiful food sources than hunting provides.

While I'm sure that Muhammed participated in some purely recreational
activities, would he have had the time for a hobby as labor and
time-intensive as hunting given everything else he did? In early
adulthood, he ran a business. After 40, he led the Muslims. After 50 he
ruled a large area. I expect that he had bigger concerns than developing
extensive rules about hunting, which would have been viewed as perfectly
acceptable at the time but not very important to most people.
--
Catherine Jefferson <***@ergosphere.net>
Blog/Personal: http://www.ergosphere.net
Yusuf B Gursey
2015-10-15 06:53:48 UTC
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Post by Yusuf B Gursey
Post by David Amicus
A Sikh friend was telling me that their last Guru Gobind Singh was a great =
hunter. Which got me wondering at anytime during his life if Muhammad ever=
Hunting is permitted, but Muhammad is said to have forbiden recreational
I seem to remember being told that the Alevis of Turkey (so IIRC by a member of the sect) are reluctant to eat game, out of concern that it might not be ritually slaughtered.
Post by Yusuf B Gursey
hunting, but Muslim rulers and noblemen seem to have invented a whole list > of exceptions.
Hunting (usually Ibex) as part of religious ritual was practcied in Pre-
Arabia has ibex in mountainous areas and antelopes in the steppe.
Post by Yusuf B Gursey
Islamic Yemen.
I have no knowledege of Muhammad practicing hunting, it certainly wasn't
something he normally did.
Post by David Amicus
hunted animals? I'm guessing the only instruments were spears and bows > > & a=
Arabia has its own breed of hunting dog, the salu:qiyy (Saluki), a sighthound that hunts by sight add speed with long slender legs like the greyhound, another sighthound.
Post by Yusuf B Gursey
Post by David Amicus
rrows and hunting animals were dogs or falcons? Muhammad's uncle Hamza > > was=
Cheetahs were also trianed for this purpose, I don't know at what date.
In addition to falcons, a variety of hawks or eagles.
Well, felines are hard to train, but I know from experience that domestic cats like to present trophies of their hunt, liken mice, scorpions, birds, to their masters on their own.
Post by Yusuf B Gursey
Post by David Amicus
a great hunter.
David Amicus
2015-10-15 07:37:02 UTC
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Post by Yusuf B Gursey
Post by Yusuf B Gursey
Post by David Amicus
A Sikh friend was telling me that their last Guru Gobind Singh was a great =
hunter. Which got me wondering at anytime during his life if Muhammad ever=
Hunting is permitted, but Muhammad is said to have forbiden recreational
I seem to remember being told that the Alevis of Turkey (so IIRC by a member of the sect) are reluctant to eat game, out of concern that it might not be ritually slaughtered.
Post by Yusuf B Gursey
hunting, but Muslim rulers and noblemen seem to have invented a whole list > of exceptions.
Hunting (usually Ibex) as part of religious ritual was practcied in Pre-
Arabia has ibex in mountainous areas and antelopes in the steppe.
Post by Yusuf B Gursey
Islamic Yemen.
I have no knowledege of Muhammad practicing hunting, it certainly wasn't
something he normally did.
Post by David Amicus
hunted animals? I'm guessing the only instruments were spears and bows > > & a=
Arabia has its own breed of hunting dog, the salu:qiyy (Saluki), a sighthound that hunts by sight add speed with long slender legs like the greyhound, another sighthound.
Post by Yusuf B Gursey
Post by David Amicus
rrows and hunting animals were dogs or falcons? Muhammad's uncle Hamza > > was=
Cheetahs were also trianed for this purpose, I don't know at what date.
In addition to falcons, a variety of hawks or eagles.
Well, felines are hard to train, but I know from experience that domestic cats like to present trophies of their hunt, liken mice, scorpions, birds, to their masters on their own.
Post by Yusuf B Gursey
Post by David Amicus
a great hunter.
Right
Post by Yusuf B Gursey
Post by Yusuf B Gursey
Post by David Amicus
A Sikh friend was telling me that their last Guru Gobind Singh was a great =
hunter. Which got me wondering at anytime during his life if Muhammad ever=
Hunting is permitted, but Muhammad is said to have forbiden recreational
I seem to remember being told that the Alevis of Turkey (so IIRC by a member of the sect) are reluctant to eat game, out of concern that it might not be ritually slaughtered.
Post by Yusuf B Gursey
hunting, but Muslim rulers and noblemen seem to have invented a whole list > of exceptions.
Hunting (usually Ibex) as part of religious ritual was practcied in Pre-
Arabia has ibex in mountainous areas and antelopes in the steppe.
Post by Yusuf B Gursey
Islamic Yemen.
I have no knowledege of Muhammad practicing hunting, it certainly wasn't
something he normally did.
Post by David Amicus
hunted animals? I'm guessing the only instruments were spears and bows > > & a=
Arabia has its own breed of hunting dog, the salu:qiyy (Saluki), a sighthound that hunts by sight add speed with long slender legs like the greyhound, another sighthound.
Post by Yusuf B Gursey
Post by David Amicus
rrows and hunting animals were dogs or falcons? Muhammad's uncle Hamza > > was=
Cheetahs were also trianed for this purpose, I don't know at what date.
In addition to falcons, a variety of hawks or eagles.
Well, felines are hard to train, but I know from experience that domestic cats like to present trophies of their hunt, liken mice, scorpions, birds, to their masters on their own.
Post by Yusuf B Gursey
Post by David Amicus
a great hunter.
Right! My dad had a cat, stayed outdoors, and she'd often like to present him with a gopher that she had caught and killed.
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